{"id":2974,"date":"2023-10-07T18:11:35","date_gmt":"2023-10-07T23:11:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/vistprojects.com\/en\/?p=2974"},"modified":"2023-10-07T18:11:51","modified_gmt":"2023-10-07T23:11:51","slug":"fictions-for-imagining-flavorful-futures","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/vistprojects.com\/en\/fictions-for-imagining-flavorful-futures\/","title":{"rendered":"Fictions for imagining flavorful futures"},"content":{"rendered":"

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The literature of the Colombian writer Juan C\u00e1rdenas serves as a reference for connecting seemingly dissimilar issues: the academic with the popular, such as literary theory and machete fencing. In this interview, we explore his two latest novels, “Peregrino Transparente” and “El\u00e1stico de Sombra,” to reflect on how art, as a political tool, compels us to preserve the memory of people and, at the same time, imagine multiple possibilities for the future.<\/p>\n

By Marcela Vallejo
Photos by Jorge Panchoaga
<\/span><\/p>\n

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Whenever I finish Juan C\u00e1rdenas’ books, I always have the same feeling: that I didn’t fully understand something or missed something. But I also traveled to familiar places, although I’m not entirely sure. His stories are intense; there are almost always journeys, powerful images, and lingering ideas.
I don’t forget, for instance, what the protagonist of “Los Estratos” thinks about the Swinglea, or “Lim\u00f3n de Cerca,” the plant used in several places to cover grilles when he says it’s to make confinement seem more natural. I don’t forget the very familiar feeling of those labyrinthine journeys in “El Diablo de las Provincias” because that tiny city is Popay\u00e1n for me (where Juan C\u00e1rdenas was also born), and there you don’t always know where you’ll end up when you go out into the street.
C\u00e1rdenas lived outside of Colombia for several years and returned to understand some of his creative impulses and be close to the stories that accompany and intersect with him. This year, he published “Peregrino transparente,” a book described as “monstrous, insane, beautiful,” as Victor Albarrac\u00edn said in a presentation. It’s a novel that appears to be an essay that experiments with forms and draws inspiration from Manuel Anc\u00edzar’s “The Pilgrimage of Alpha” (written during the first journey of the Corographic Commission). Still, it creates a Western, as C\u00e1rdenas states at the beginning of the book.
The character (narrator, author, we’re not exactly sure) announces that it’s an exercise to “guess the present.” It’s not a historical novel; it’s a journey into the past to understand the present, to imagine a “flavorful future.”
This book is related to C\u00e1rdenas’ previous novel, “El\u00e1stico de Sombra,” in which he travels with Macheteros<\/em> (Machete Wielders) from the north of Cauca through their fantastical tales and the stories accompanying them. Witches, goblins, little devils, and fantastic beings, much like the Macheteros<\/em> themselves, are audacious beings performing machete feats, making deals with the devil, pondering the character of the wind, Don Viento. The connection begins with the form, he says, because in these novels, unlike the previous ones, the characters and places have names. But it goes further: the 19th century, the marvelous characters of this region of the country, the interest in understanding a knowledge that involves flavor.
“What interests me is the futuristic nature of these things,” C\u00e1rdenas will tell me to make clear what he seeks with his literature, with the images he constructs with words. “These are not fictions to peek into a remote past, but to invite people to desire to create cooler, more flavorful, more awesome, more beautiful, and more celebratory futures of forces that are there. There’s something that moves us deeply and has been around for a long time, but it’s propelling us forward.”<\/p>\n

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Your two latest books, “Peregrino Transparente” (2023) and “El\u00e1stico de Sombra” (2019), are very different from your previous works, and they are also different from each other. I understand that both stem from research processes. Why is there such a difference from your previous books, and what was the writing process for these texts like?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Indeed, these books are quite different from what I had been doing. For example, a detail may seem minor but is quite structural. If you look at my previous books, there are no proper names: people don’t have names, streets don’t have names, cities don’t have names, nothing has a name. And suddenly, in these two books, there are not only names but many of them. This seemingly cosmetic or superficial difference is, in fact, a significant structural change because the politics of proper names is at play in both cases. The absence of proper names in my previous books was part of a broader politics of naming, and it’s connected to a very different approach to the territory.<\/span><\/p>\n

In the case of my earlier texts, I felt the need to create distance and disorientation. While reading, I wanted the reader to ask, “Where is this? Where is it taking place?” But simultaneously, the descriptions are so meticulous, and everything is constructed so that you start to get into the groove and think, “Well, this is like the Colombian Pacific.”<\/span><\/p>\n

When I finished that cycle of novels with “El Diablo de las Pprovincias,” I wasn’t sure what to do next, but I had a few things in mind. One of them was my research on machete fencing. I had been visiting the masters and working on more academic research for about six years. During that time, my relationship with Master Sandoval and Miguel Lourido had evolved, and I had become more than just the white academic; we had become friends. It was like the ethnographic pact had been broken.<\/span><\/p>\n

At one point, they told me these academic products weren’t serving anyone. They said, “You’re a writer, write something.” So, we discussed it, and the process was enjoyable because we imagined together what it would be like. We thought about a movie, a documentary. But what impressed me a lot was the fantastic stories \u2013 these guys had a technical side, like how to move, make a certain movement, etc. But then, I realized that behind all the martial arts aspects was folklore, a wealth of folkloric and fantastic stories about\u00a0<\/span>Macheteros<\/span><\/em>\u00a0performing feats doing magical and wild things. And I loved that.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think they envisioned it as something very Kung Fu; they wanted it to be like a martial arts novel. Ultimately, I think it turned out to be something in between. But it made no sense to write this book using the techniques I had used for my previous works; there had to be names, and people had to be called something. So, the politics of proper names changed, and interestingly, that profoundly affected everything that came after writing “Peregrino” as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

I suddenly reconciled with the idea of using these proper names and using them in a certain way. Proper names are dangerous; when you say Buenaventura, Cali, Popay\u00e1n, or Pasto, there are many associations and preconceptions. That is precisely what “Peregrino” is about \u2013 how these regional imaginaries and prejudices were constructed.<\/span><\/p>\n

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\u201cIt is an attempt to reconstruct the fabrics of a series of regional histories, which I believe we do not owe to ourselves because they are the stories of our grandparents because they were lost. We must recognize these things we should tell ourselves because this is our political and biographical legacy. It has to do with what we treasure.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

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Another difference, especially with ‘Peregrino,’ is how it approaches time. The previous ones narrate stories in the present or a more recent and identifiable time, but ‘Peregrino’ delves into the past. Both connect to the 19th century; ‘Peregrino’ is set in the 19th century, but the\u00a0<\/span>Machetero<\/span><\/em>s are strongly linked. Why so much interest in that century?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Interestingly, I arrived at the 19th century through the\u00a0<\/span>Macheteros<\/span><\/em>\u00a0because it was the period of the peak of machete fencing, the zenith of its practice. Many people were practicing machete fencing, especially the black armies of 19th-century liberalism, which fought in all the wars from the War of Los Supremos to 1870, which was the most potent period. These were contingents of hundreds of men skilled in machete fencing.<\/span><\/p>\n

It was peculiar because, in the process of researching, studying, reading, and collecting oral stories about machete fencing, everything somehow led to the 19th century. That century it marked an era of invention, such as the idea of democracy, where the participation of numerous subaltern sectors, not only blacks but all the subaltern sectors in the Great Cauca, played a tremendous role.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, I gradually encountered this universe of people, the ordinary folks who have always constructed the images, mythology, and ideas upon which our thoughts about Cauca, the Greater Cauca, or this entire region as a historical and political battleground are based. Ultimately, all of this is connected with an underlying autobiographical aspect that never appears very clearly in any of the texts but is always there. It has always been a lovely mystery to think about the people I ultimately came from: my family and the common folks. They are like threads that connect everything. In other words, this entire narrative of craftsmanship is intimately linked to the narrative of the black armies in Northern Cauca, as well as figures like the \u00f1apangas and the figures of the small stores.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s an attempt to reconstruct the fabric of a series of regional stories, which I believe we owe to ourselves because they are the stories of our grandparents, as they have been lost. I needed to acknowledge these things we should tell ourselves, as this is our political and biographical legacy. It has to do with what we treasure.<\/span><\/p>\n

[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=”1_4,3_4″ use_custom_gutter=”on” gutter_width=”1″ custom_padding_last_edited=”on|phone” admin_label=”Fila-regular 10-90″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” background_color=”RGBA(0,0,0,0)” width=”100%” max_width=”1920px” custom_margin=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_margin_tablet=”” custom_margin_phone=”” custom_margin_last_edited=”on|desktop” custom_padding=”0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false” border_radii=”off||||” collapsed=”off” global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_column type=”1_4″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” background_enable_color=”off” custom_padding=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”” custom_padding_phone=”” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|desktop” custom_css_main_element=”width:10%!important;” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=”3_4″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”|0px||0px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|desktop” custom_css_main_element=”width:90%!important;” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_code admin_label=”Imagen Esp” module_class=”vst-cnt-img” _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=”1_4,3_4″ use_custom_gutter=”on” gutter_width=”1″ custom_padding_last_edited=”on|phone” admin_label=”Fila-regular” _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” background_color=”RGBA(0,0,0,0)” width=”100%” max_width=”1920px” custom_margin=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_margin_tablet=”” custom_margin_phone=”” custom_margin_last_edited=”on|desktop” custom_padding=”0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false” border_radii=”off||||” collapsed=”off” global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_column type=”1_4″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” background_enable_color=”off” custom_padding=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”” custom_padding_phone=”” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|desktop” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=”3_4″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”|0px||0px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|desktop” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_text module_class=”vst-p” _builder_version=”4.15.1″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”50px||||false|false” hover_enabled=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}” sticky_enabled=”0″]<\/p>\n

I was thinking again about that relationship with the present because right at the beginning of ‘Peregrino,’ there’s a reflection on history, on the apparent inevitability of history; this made me think of the researcher \u00a0<\/b>Ariella Azoulay<\/b><\/a> when she says that the way history is told makes it seem like what happened was inevitable, like a destiny. But when one starts to see, there are more possibilities in reality. This leads me to think about the relationship with the present; it’s not just about traveling there and seeing what happened \u2013 avoiding historical fiction, of course \u2013 but about reconstructing the other narratives you mentioned. However, it’s challenging not to reconstruct these narratives without falling into a representation that reproduces the illusion of historical destiny.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, but precisely, I believe that’s why the novels are constructed this way in both cases. Of course, by saying this, I’m not suggesting that I avoided the problem; no. But there was an awareness that we needed to avoid that issue, meaning the idea of a single and official narrative. In ‘Peregrino,’ right from the start, I say, “This thing is coming to me while I look out the window,” in other words, I’m telling you that it’s occurring to me, I’m putting you in front of the fact that it’s a fantasy.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s important to emphasize this because it has much to do with what you mentioned about Ariella Azoulay. I’m very interested in how she thinks about the archive. You don’t create the archive to construct an official history; you build the archive as a public space, and in every public space, there are projections, fantasies, imaginaries, and desires as well. And desires are always projectiles; they move toward the future, and they are thrown forward. So, I’m more interested in the futuristic dimension of the archive than in the dimension of truth.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think it’s cool to reconstruct these oral history narratives, often by filling gaps because the documents are insufficient, not even the oral testimonies or anything; you have to fill in the gaps, you have to engage in an exercise of imagination, a literary exercise, deduction, and invention.<\/span><\/p>\n

In these two books, there’s a narrator or a character who is you but not you. To what extent can it be said that you appear there? I’m thinking about the distance between the author and the narrator, and at the same time, about the first person who speaks to the readers in ‘Peregrino,’ and also about the character Cero in ‘El\u00e1stico de Sombra.’<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

First, I believe this issue is almost impossible to resolve. You probably know that these debates about the author’s place, who the narrator is, and who the biographical person is have been endlessly discussed. It will always be there and difficult to define, if not impossible.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s interesting to think that authorship has primarily a legal origin in the Middle Ages. When you sign a text, when that name appears at the bottom, it means that this is the legal responsibility for what is said there. In other words, you sign it, and they can burn you alive. That happened in the Middle Ages, but it still happens today. The concept of authorship has a legal origin, and that’s still there; you always make yourself responsible by putting in your signature.<\/span><\/p>\n

We had an interesting debate when we were talking to Miguel. We both sign many of the academic products we created because we do the research. But with the novel, we said, “Well, I’ll write the novel, but should we sign it together, create a pseudonym, or what should we do?” We considered all these options, but Miguel said, “If we sign with a pseudonym, everyone will think it’s so-and-so’s novel, and no one will care. On the other hand, if you sign it, it’s your name; you already have a name, and that name is what will make people read the book.”<\/span><\/p>\n

In the end, there’s always a condition of phantasmagoria. The “I” is what dissolves the most and becomes a very strange specter that’s there. In my case, I’m pulling on threads, on narratives, and curiously, there’s an autobiographical tension in the background. It’s like, who am I, and why am I drawn to these things.<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/span><\/p>\n

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<\/b><\/p>\n

\u201cYes, one is taking pictures, making installations, or doing some specific praxis that implies that I spent much time alone, thinking. But in reality, one is doing these things with and for others. Images and texts can build a community that other forms don’t have. The text becomes that public space where people discuss it.\u201d<\/b><\/p>\n

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When we talk about memory, we often talk about something that can be verified, recorded, or concealed, but it’s not always the case. The truth is that memories are continually being constructed. I think about what we’ve discussed and what Azoulay says, and it leads me to think that one of the ways to escape from these seemingly inevitable stories is imagination. I heard an i<\/span><\/strong>nterview<\/span><\/strong><\/a>\u00a0where Malena Rey mentioned that you are an author with great confidence in imagination. What are your thoughts on that assertion, and how do you approach the relationship between memory and imagination?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I have an ambiguous or complicated relationship with imagination because, on the one hand, I don’t like the idea of unbridled fantasy just for the sake of it. This idea comes from surrealism, certain avant-garde in the realm of total fantasy. I always feel uneasy about the idea of imagination as a purely lavish and sportive expenditure of fantasy. Because I also believe in scientific methods and am interested in them. Whenever someone mentions the word “imagination,” I remember a quote from Reichel Dolmatoff in an ethnography he wrote about the Tucano people in Vaup\u00e9s.<\/span><\/p>\n

He says an incredible thing about how the Tucano people conceive their metaphysics. They have a whole set of words where, for example, there is an etymological affinity between the terms used for light and semen, so there’s a full idea of generation in light.<\/span><\/p>\n

Reichel continues along that line of thought, and when he concludes, he says, “For the Tucano people, imagination is a tool of high precision.” I’ll never forget that phrase because if an idea of imagination needs to be defended, it’s that one. You’ve exhausted all possible rational avenues, employed all your techniques, resources, procedures, and discourses in the service of an inquiry, and suddenly, you’re left with many gaps you can’t fill. Well, imagination fills those gaps, and it has to be of the utmost precision.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s the type of imagination I believe in. In these places where there’s so much impunity and where we have this history that is challenging to reconstruct \u2013 how we’ve been oppressed, destroyed, and persecuted \u2013 it’s often difficult to do so because our enemies deliberately erase traces and obscure the narratives. That’s where imagination has to come in.<\/span><\/p>\n

You reach a point where you say, “Okay, I don’t have the testimony, the evidence, strong pieces of evidence to establish a material connection. But I have some small ruins, some small clues, and from these clues, I will try to use my imagination as that tool of high precision to reconstruct the narrative so that it doesn’t go unpunished so that we can tell this story, share it, and create narratives.”<\/span><\/p>\n

[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=”1_2,1_2″ use_custom_gutter=”on” gutter_width=”1″ custom_padding_last_edited=”on|phone” admin_label=”Fila 50-50″ module_class=”vst-cnt-img-x2″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” width=”100%” max_width=”1920px” custom_margin=”0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false” custom_padding=”0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”|25px||25px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”|20px||20px|false|false” collapsed=”off” global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_column type=”1_2″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”0px|10px|0px|0px|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”|5px|||false|false” custom_padding_phone=”|0px|||false|false” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|phone” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}” custom_css_main_element_last_edited=”on|desktop”][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=”1_2″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”0px|0px|0px|10px|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”|||5px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”|||0px|false|false” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|tablet” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_code admin_label=”Imagen Esp” module_class=”vst-cnt-img” _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=”1_4,3_4″ use_custom_gutter=”on” gutter_width=”1″ custom_padding_last_edited=”on|phone” admin_label=”Fila-regular” _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” background_color=”RGBA(0,0,0,0)” width=”100%” max_width=”1920px” module_alignment=”center” custom_margin=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_margin_tablet=”” custom_margin_phone=”” custom_margin_last_edited=”on|phone” custom_padding=”0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”0px|50px|60px|25px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”0px|20px|60px|20px|false|false” border_radii=”off||||” collapsed=”off” global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_column type=”1_4″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” background_enable_color=”off” custom_padding=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”” custom_padding_phone=”” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|desktop” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=”3_4″ _builder_version=”4.15″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false” custom_padding_tablet=”|0px||0px|false|false” custom_padding_phone=”0px||0px||false|false” custom_padding_last_edited=”on|desktop” pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}”][et_pb_text module_class=”vst-p” _builder_version=”4.15.1″ _module_preset=”default” custom_padding=”50px||||false|false” hover_enabled=”0″ global_colors_info=”{}” sticky_enabled=”0″]<\/p>\n

Why is it so important to create these narratives?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

When you start getting interested in literary theory and delve into all the debates of the 1960s, especially French theory, you inevitably end up in the discussions surrounding a magazine called “Tel Quel,” in which many writers and thinkers emerged. In that magazine, there was an almost universally shared dogma among those people: narrativity is like an enemy to be conquered. For them, the narrative is ideological. It’s the expression of an ideology; therefore, what needs to be done is dismantling narratives.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s one of the dogmas of these people, so it forms a paradigm of anti-narrativity with political reasons. They argue that to prevent control through little stories. We must destroy the stories and generate antinarrative forms from scratch. That’s why the French novels of that time were highly experimental. Those dogmas more or less still exist, and the novel should always tend towards a certain formal trick to avoid being narrative.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think that’s a big problem. I believe it’s giving away narrativity or the ability to create stories for the enemy. We can’t do that. I mean, narrativity belongs to us, and you can also see how popular organizations operate; they are narrative mechanisms. They tell the story of how they took the land to build the neighborhood, how they erected the first houses, who built them, and who was the first person who brought us electricity. Building a narrative memory of the social movement or mobilization is crucial. I think that if popular organizations work this way, then why shouldn’t we work this way, from memory and narration?<\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t mean to say I’m against experimentalism, as seen in my novels. On the contrary, this presents more formal challenges than pondering the dichotomy between narrativity and anti-narrativity.<\/span><\/p>\n

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That’s evident in your stances towards art and art as a political tool. Thinking about the act of writing, as you describe it, as a succession of social organization dismantles your ideological structure, meaning literature as a march. “Peregrino Transparente” precisely mobilizes many emotions because it’s highly political. I think about the moment when Pandiguando kills people and how he does it. There’s a suggestion of revenge, but also the politics of love you talk about, there’s a tension.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

I don’t feel like part of an elite; I feel like part of a vanguard, and I believe that’s a radical difference because a vanguard is something else. The vanguard, by definition, is entirely linked to the people, tied to popular forces of which I’ve always felt fully a part. In other words, that trick is that just because someone went to university, they’re no longer of the people. That’s the devil of the oligarchs doing their thing again.<\/span><\/p>\n

I refuse to accept that they can separate me from the people. I’m never going to give them that pleasure. I am of the people, and I don’t do things from an “I” but from the collective. It’s just that literature and art are unique because, yes, you work alone, but in reality, you’re not alone.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s important to know this. Yes, you’re taking photos, creating installations, or engaging in some specific praxis that involves spending much time thinking alone. But, in reality, you do these things with and for others. I believe that, in the end, these things do build a community. Images and texts have a unique ability to build a community that other forms don’t have. In the end, the text becomes that public space and becomes the place where people discuss it. It has been intriguing and, at the same time, stimulating and beautiful how people have embraced “Peregrino.” It’s very nice because it’s becoming less mine every time.<\/span><\/p>\n

These things gradually create a community and sensibility that is ultimately the most important and politically persuasive part. Because you can have all the correct speeches, you make the proper analysis, you write an article in the newspaper where you very clinically analyzed everything well, but if you’re not proposing something sensitive, you won’t convince anyone. This is a battle, and in this battle, you win with sensitivity by creating things that infect people and make people feel that it’s delightful and rich. That’s the key part for me, the political part.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t<\/svg><\/a>\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t<\/svg><\/a>\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t<\/g>\n\t<\/svg><\/a>The literature of the Colombian writer Juan C\u00e1rdenas serves as a reference for connecting seemingly dissimilar issues: the academic with the popular, such as literary theory and machete fencing. In this interview, we explore his two latest novels, “Peregrino Transparente” and “El\u00e1stico de Sombra,” to reflect on how art, as a political tool, compels us […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"on","_et_pb_old_content":"[et_pb_section fb_built=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" module_class=\"vst-tm-entrevista\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"100%\" module_alignment=\"center\" min_height=\"100vh\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"100px|0px|100px|0px|true|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"70px||||false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_row use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-intro\" 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_builder_version=\"4.15\" _dynamic_attributes=\"content\" _module_preset=\"default\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]@ET-DC@eyJkeW5hbWljIjp0cnVlLCJjb250ZW50IjoicG9zdF9kYXRlIiwic2V0dGluZ3MiOnsiYmVmb3JlIjoiIiwiYWZ0ZXIiOiIiLCJkYXRlX2Zvcm1hdCI6IkYgZCwgWSIsImN1c3RvbV9kYXRlX2Zvcm1hdCI6IiJ9fQ==@[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_divider color=\"#000000\" divider_weight=\"1.5px\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"100%\" min_height=\"2px\" height=\"2px\" max_height=\"2px\" custom_padding=\"15px||15px||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Social\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][vist_social_buttons][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text admin_label=\"T\u00edtulo\" module_class=\"vsp-titulo-top\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _dynamic_attributes=\"content\" _module_preset=\"default\" height=\"100%\" custom_padding_tablet=\"50px|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"40px|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]@ET-DC@eyJkeW5hbWljIjp0cnVlLCJjb250ZW50IjoicG9zdF90aXRsZSIsInNldHRpbmdzIjp7ImJlZm9yZSI6IjxoMT4iLCJhZnRlciI6IjwvaDE+In19@[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=\"4.15.1\" _module_preset=\"default\" text_font_size=\"23px\" text_line_height=\"28px\" custom_padding=\"50px||50px||false|false\" locked=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\nLa literatura del colombiano Juan C\u00e1rdenas es un referente para conectar asuntos aparentemente dis\u00edmiles: lo acad\u00e9mico con lo popular, como la teor\u00eda literaria y la esgrima de machete. En esta entrevista, visitamos sus dos \u00faltimas novelas, Peregrino transparente y El\u00e1stico de sombra, para reflexionar sobre c\u00f3mo el arte, como herramienta pol\u00edtica, nos impulsa a conservar la memoria de los pueblos y, a la vez, imaginar m\u00faltiples posibilidades del porvenir.<\/span>\n\nPor Marcela Vallejo\nFotos de Jorge Panchoaga\n<\/span>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||50px||false|false\" locked=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\nSiempre que termino los libros de Juan C\u00e1rdenas termino con la misma sensaci\u00f3n: que algo no termin\u00e9 de entender, que algo me salt\u00e9. Pero tambi\u00e9n que me traslad\u00e9 a unos lugares conocidos, aunque no tengo total certeza. Sus historias son intensas, hay viajes casi siempre, im\u00e1genes poderosas, ideas que no se van.<\/span>\n\nNo olvido, por ejemplo, lo que el protagonista de <\/span>Los estratos<\/span><\/i> piensa sobre la <\/span>swinglea<\/span><\/i>, o lim\u00f3n de cerca, la planta que se usa en varios lugares para cubrir las rejas, cuando dice que es para que el encierro parezca m\u00e1s natural. No olvido la sensaci\u00f3n tan familiar de esos recorridos laber\u00ednticos en <\/span>El diablo de las provincias<\/span><\/i>, porque esa ciudad enana para m\u00ed es Popay\u00e1n (donde tambi\u00e9n naci\u00f3 Juan C\u00e1rdenas), y ah\u00ed una no siempre sabe d\u00f3nde va a terminar cuando sale a la calle.<\/span>\n\nC\u00e1rdenas vivi\u00f3 fuera de Colombia varios a\u00f1os y regres\u00f3 para entender algunos de sus impulsos creativos, pero tambi\u00e9n para estar cerca de las historias que lo acompa\u00f1an y atraviesan. Este a\u00f1o, public\u00f3 <\/span>Peregrino transparente,<\/span><\/i> un libro \u201cmonstruoso, demente, hermoso\u201d, como dijo Victor Albarrac\u00edn en una <\/span>presentaci\u00f3n<\/span><\/a>. Se trata de una novela que parece ensayo, que experimenta con las formas, y que se inspira en la <\/span>Peregrinaci\u00f3n de Alpha<\/span><\/i>, de Manuel Anc\u00edzar (escrito durante el primer viaje de la Comisi\u00f3n Corogr\u00e1fica), pero que crea un <\/span>western<\/span><\/i>, como se\u00f1ala C\u00e1rdenas al principio del libro. <\/span>\n\nEl personaje (narrador, autor, no sabemos exactamente qu\u00e9) anuncia que se trata de un ejercicio para \u201cadivinar el presente\u201d. No es una novela hist\u00f3rica, es un viaje al pasado para entender el presente, para imaginar un \u201cfuturo sabroso\u201d.<\/span>\n\nEste libro est\u00e1 relacionado con la novela anterior de C\u00e1rdenas, <\/span>El\u00e1stico de sombra<\/span><\/i>, en la que viaja con macheteros del norte del Cauca por sus cuentos fant\u00e1sticos, por las historias que les acompa\u00f1an. Brujas, duendes, diablillos, seres fant\u00e1sticos, como los mismos macheteros que son seres audaces que hacen proezas con el machete, que hacen tratos con el diablo, que se preguntan por el car\u00e1cter del viento, Don Viento. La conexi\u00f3n empieza por la forma, dice, porque en estas novelas a diferencia de las anteriores los personajes y los lugares tienen nombres. Pero que va m\u00e1s all\u00e1: el siglo XIX, los personajes maravillosos de esta regi\u00f3n del pa\u00eds, el inter\u00e9s por entender un conocimiento que pasa por el sabor.<\/span>\n\n\u201cLo que me interesa es el car\u00e1cter futurista de estas cosas\u201d, me dir\u00e1 C\u00e1rdenas para dejar claro lo que busca con su literatura, con las im\u00e1genes que construye con palabras. \u201cEstas no son ficciones para ir a asomarse un pasado remoto, sino para invitar a la gente a que desee crear futuros m\u00e1s ch\u00e9veres, m\u00e1s sabrosos, m\u00e1s bacanos, m\u00e1s lindos y m\u00e1s celebratorios de unas fuerzas que est\u00e1n ah\u00ed. Hay algo que nos moviliza muy profundamente y que viene de mucho tiempo atr\u00e1s, pero que nos est\u00e1 lanzando para adelante\u201d. <\/span>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular 10-90\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_css_main_element=\"width:10%!important;\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_css_main_element=\"width:90%!important;\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" custom_css_main_element_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" custom_css_main_element_tablet=\"width:100%!important;\" custom_css_main_element_phone=\"width:100%!important;\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"21681\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-p\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\n \n\nTus dos \u00faltimos libros, <\/b>Peregrino transparente <\/i><\/b>(2023) y <\/b>El\u00e1stico de sombra <\/i><\/b>(2019), son muy diferentes de los anteriores y tambi\u00e9n son diferentes entre s\u00ed. Entiendo que los dos derivan de procesos de investigaci\u00f3n. \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 tanta diferencia con los libros anteriores y c\u00f3mo fue el proceso de escritura de estos textos?<\/b>\n\nEstos libros efectivamente son bien distintos a lo que yo ven\u00eda haciendo. Por ejemplo, hay un detalle que parece menor, pero que en realidad es bien estructural. Si vos te fij\u00e1s en los libros anteriores no hay nombres propios: la gente no tiene nombre, las calles no tienen nombre, las ciudades no tienen nombre, nada tiene nombre. Y de repente en estos dos libros no solamente hay nombres, sino que hay un mont\u00f3n. Eso que parece una diferencia cosm\u00e9tica o superficial, es algo en realidad bien estructural porque hay una pol\u00edtica de los nombres propios operando en los dos casos. La ausencia en los libros anteriores era toda una pol\u00edtica del nombre propio, y tiene que ver con una aproximaci\u00f3n al territorio muy diferente.<\/span>\n\nEn el caso de los textos anteriores, sent\u00eda que necesitaba generar una distancia y una desorientaci\u00f3n. Que cuando estuvieras leyendo el texto dijeras: \u201c\u00bfy d\u00f3nde es esto, d\u00f3nde transcurre esto?\u201d Pero al mismo tiempo las descripciones son tan minuciosas y todo est\u00e1 hecho de tal manera que uno empieza a entrar en la onda y uno dice: \u201cBueno, esto es como el Pac\u00edfico colombiano\u201d. <\/span>\n\nCuando termin\u00e9 ese ciclo de novelas con <\/span>El diablo de las provincias<\/span><\/i>, no sab\u00eda muy bien qu\u00e9 iba a hacer despu\u00e9s, pero ten\u00eda una serie de cosas. Una de ellas era la investigaci\u00f3n sobre esgrima de machete. Llevaba como unos seis a\u00f1os visitando a los maestros, haciendo productos de investigaci\u00f3n m\u00e1s acad\u00e9micos. En ese tiempo, mi relaci\u00f3n con el maestro Sandoval y con Miguel Lourido hab\u00eda cambiado, ya no era solo el acad\u00e9mico blanquito, sino que empezamos a hacernos amigos. Como que el pacto etnogr\u00e1fico se hab\u00eda roto.<\/span>\n\nEn un momento, ellos me dicen que esos productos acad\u00e9micos no le sirven a nadie. Me dec\u00edan \u201custed es escritor, escriba algo\u201d. Entonces, lo fuimos hablando y ese proceso fue ch\u00e9vere, porque juntos fuimos imaginando c\u00f3mo ser\u00eda, pensamos en una pel\u00edcula, en un documental. Lo que pasa es que a m\u00ed lo que me impresion\u00f3 mucho fue lo de los cuentos fant\u00e1sticos, o sea, los manes ten\u00edan toda una parte t\u00e9cnica como que hay que moverse as\u00ed hay que hacer tal movimiento as\u00e1. Pero luego me fui dando cuenta de que detr\u00e1s de todo lo propio del arte marcial, hab\u00eda folklore, hab\u00eda un mont\u00f3n de cuentos folcl\u00f3ricos y fant\u00e1sticos de macheteros que hacen proezas, cosas m\u00e1gicas y s\u00faper locas. Y eso me encant\u00f3.<\/span>\n\nYo creo que ellos se lo estaban imaginando muy Kung Fu, quer\u00edan que fuera como una novela de artes marciales. Al final creo que s\u00ed se logr\u00f3 una cosa ah\u00ed a medias. Pero no ten\u00eda ning\u00fan sentido escribir este libro con las t\u00e9cnicas con las que yo hab\u00eda escrito los anteriores, aqu\u00ed ten\u00eda que haber nombres, aqu\u00ed la gente ten\u00eda que llamarse de alguna manera. Entonces, la pol\u00edtica del nombre propio cambi\u00f3 y curiosamente eso tuvo un efecto muy profundo en todo lo que vino despu\u00e9s en la escritura del peregrino tambi\u00e9n.<\/span>\n\nDe repente me reconcili\u00e9 con la idea de usar esos nombres propios y de usarlos de una determinada manera, pues los nombres propios son peligrosos, cuando vos dec\u00eds Buenaventura, Cali, Popay\u00e1n o dec\u00eds pasto, pues hay una cantidad de imaginarios. Precisamente eso es de lo que va el Peregrino, de c\u00f3mo se construyeron esos imaginarios regionales y esos prejuicios.<\/span>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_2,1_2\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila 50-50\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img-x2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|25px||25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|20px||20px|false|false\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|10px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|5px|||false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|0px|||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" custom_css_main_element_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"21670\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|10px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|||5px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_2,1_2\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila 50-50\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img-x2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|25px||25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|20px||20px|false|false\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|10px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|5px|||false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|0px|||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" custom_css_main_element_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|10px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|||5px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"21671\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_2,1_2\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" admin_label=\"Fila quote\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img-x2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|25px||25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|20px||20px|false|false\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-quote\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"||||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\n\u201cEs un intento por reconstruir los tejidos de una serie de historias regionales, que creo que no las debemos a nosotros mismos, porque son las historias de nuestros abuelos, porque se fueron perdiendo. Para m\u00ed era importante reconocer estas cosas que debemos contarnos, porque este es nuestro legado pol\u00edtico y biogr\u00e1fico. Tiene que ver con lo que nosotros atesoramos.\u201d<\/b>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" module_alignment=\"center\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|phone\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|50px|60px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|60px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-p\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\nOtra diferencia que hay, en especial con el <\/b>Peregrino<\/i><\/b>, es c\u00f3mo aborda el tiempo. Los anteriores narran historias en un presente o un tiempo que est\u00e1 m\u00e1s cercano, m\u00e1s ubicable, pero este aborda el pasado. Y en los dos hay una relaci\u00f3n con el siglo XIX, el Peregrino sucede en el XIX, pero los macheteros tienen una relaci\u00f3n fuerte con ese momento. \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 tanto inter\u00e9s por ese siglo?<\/b>\n\nCuriosamente llegu\u00e9 al siglo XIX por los macheteros porque es el periodo de esplendor de la esgrima de machete, es el momento de su pico m\u00e1s alto. Hab\u00eda much\u00edsima gente que hac\u00eda esgrima de machete, los ej\u00e9rcitos negros del liberalismo del siglo XIX que pelearon todas las guerras: desde la Guerra de Los Supremos hasta 1870, que es como el per\u00edodo m\u00e1s potente. Eran contingentes de cientos de hombres que sab\u00edan esgrima de machete.<\/span>\n\nFue muy raro porque en el proceso de investigar, estudiar, leer y recoger historias orales sobre la esgrima, todo de alguna u otra manera terminaba en el siglo XIX. Ese siglo fue como la era de la invenci\u00f3n de una serie de cosas como: la invenci\u00f3n de una idea de democracia donde la participaci\u00f3n de un mont\u00f3n de sectores subalternos no solamente los negros, sino todos los sectores subalternos del Gran Cauca tuvo un rol tremendo. <\/span>\n\nEntonces, yo me fui encontrando con ese universo de gente, la gente de abajo que toda la vida ha fabricado las im\u00e1genes, la mitolog\u00eda y las ideas en las que se sustenta todo lo que pensamos del Cauca o del gran Cauca o de toda esta regi\u00f3n como un escenario de lucha pol\u00edtica hist\u00f3rico. Y al final todo esto terminaba conectando con un costado autobiogr\u00e1fico que nunca aparece de manera muy clara, en ninguno de los textos, pero que siempre est\u00e1 ah\u00ed. Para m\u00ed siempre fue un enigma pensar esto de que siempre se asocia a este lugar como algo conservador y en realidad no lo es, es un lugar de vanguardia, un lugar s\u00faper experimental donde la gente siempre est\u00e1 inventando cosas y es tambi\u00e9n un laboratorio pol\u00edtico.<\/span>\n\nPara m\u00ed siempre fue un misterio muy lindo pensar c\u00f3mo ser\u00eda esa gente de la que yo, en \u00faltimas, vengo, mi familia, gente de abajo. Son como unas tramas que ligan las cosas, o sea, toda esta trama del artesanado est\u00e1 \u00edntimamente ligada a la trama de los ej\u00e9rcitos negros del Norte el Cauca, est\u00e1 ligada, por ejemplo, a las figuras de las \u00f1apangas, a las figuras de las pulper\u00edas.<\/span>\n\nEs un intento por reconstruir los tejidos de una serie de historias regionales, que creo que nos las debemos a nosotros mismos, porque son las historias de nuestros abuelos, porque se fueron perdiendo. Para m\u00ed era importante reconocer estas cosas que creo que debemos contarnos a nosotros mismos, porque este es nuestro legado pol\u00edtico y biogr\u00e1fico. Tiene que ver con lo que nosotros atesoramos.<\/span>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular 10-90\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_css_main_element=\"width:10%!important;\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_css_main_element=\"width:90%!important;\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-p\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\nAh\u00ed pensaba otra vez en esa relaci\u00f3n con el presente porque justo al principio de el <\/b>Peregrino<\/i><\/b> hay una reflexi\u00f3n sobre la historia, sobre lo aparentemente inevitable de la historia. Eso me hac\u00eda pensar en la investigadora <\/b>Ariella Azoulay<\/b><\/a> cuando dice que la forma en que la historia est\u00e1 contada, hace pensar que lo que ha sucedido es inevitable, que es como un destino. Pero que cuando una empieza a ver en realidad hay m\u00e1s posibilidades. Eso me lleva a pensar en esa relaci\u00f3n con el presente, no es \u00fanicamente viajar all\u00e1 y ver qu\u00e9 pas\u00f3 \u2013evitando la novela hist\u00f3rica, por supuesto\u2013, sino en reconstruir estas otras tramas que acabas de mencionar. Pero es dif\u00edcil no reconstruir esas tramas sin caer en una representaci\u00f3n que reproduzca esa ilusi\u00f3n de destino de la historia. <\/b>\n\nS\u00ed, pero justamente yo creo que por eso las novelas est\u00e1n construidas as\u00ed en los dos casos. Obviamente con eso no te estoy diciendo que evit\u00e9 el problema, no, pero s\u00ed hab\u00eda una conciencia de que hab\u00eda que evitar ese problema, es decir, de que hab\u00eda que evitar esa cosa de relato \u00fanico y de relato oficial. En el <\/span>Peregrino<\/span><\/i> de entrada yo digo est\u00e1 vaina se me est\u00e1 ocurriendo a m\u00ed aqu\u00ed mientras me veo por la ventana, o sea, te estoy diciendo que se me est\u00e1 ocurriendo, te estoy poniendo ante el hecho de que eso es una fantas\u00eda.<\/span>\n\nEs bien importante marcar eso, porque tiene mucho que ver con lo que dec\u00eds de Ariella Azoulay, a m\u00ed me interesa mucho c\u00f3mo ella piensa el archivo. Vos no constru\u00eds el archivo para crear una historia oficial, vos constru\u00eds el archivo como un espacio p\u00fablico y en todo espacio p\u00fablico hay proyecciones, fantas\u00edas, imaginarios y deseos tambi\u00e9n. Y los deseos siempre son proyectiles, van para el futuro, se tiran para adelante. Entonces a m\u00ed me interesa m\u00e1s la dimensi\u00f3n futurista del archivo que la dimensi\u00f3n de la verdad. <\/span>\n\nMe parece que es ch\u00e9vere reconstruir esas tramas de historia oral muchas veces rellenando huecos porque los documentos no te alcanzan, ni siquiera los testimonios orales, ni nada, vos ten\u00e9s que rellenar los huecos, ten\u00e9s que hacer un ejercicio de imaginaci\u00f3n, un ejercicio literario, de deducci\u00f3n y de invenci\u00f3n.<\/span>\n\nEn estos dos libros aparece un narrador o un personaje que sos vos, pero no sos vos. \u00bfHasta qu\u00e9 punto se puede decir que sos vos el que aparece ah\u00ed? Estoy pensando en esa distancia que hay entre autor y narrador, y a la vez en esta primera persona que habla a las lectoras en el <\/b>Peregrino<\/i><\/b>, y tambi\u00e9n en el personaje de Cero en <\/b>El\u00e1stico de sombra.<\/i><\/b>\n\nPrimero yo creo que esto es una cuesti\u00f3n que es casi imposible de dirimir. Sabr\u00e1s que hasta la saciedad se han debatido estas cosas sobre el lugar del autor y qui\u00e9n es el narrador, qui\u00e9n es la persona biogr\u00e1fica\u2026 Eso siempre va a estar all\u00ed y siempre va a ser dif\u00edcil de definir, sino imposible. <\/span>\n\nEs interesante pensar que el concepto de autor\u00eda tiene sobre todo un origen jur\u00eddico en la Edad Media. Cuando uno firma un texto, cuando aparece ese nombre abajo, eso es porque ese es el responsable jur\u00eddico de lo que se dice ah\u00ed, es decir, vos firm\u00e1s eso y te pueden quemar vivo. Eso es b\u00e1sicamente lo que pasaba en la Edad Media, pero que sigue pasando ahorita. El concepto de autor\u00eda tiene un origen jur\u00eddico y eso sigue ah\u00ed, uno siempre se hace responsable de poner esa firma.<\/span>\n\nDe hecho, ese fue un debate interesante que tuvimos cuando habl\u00e1bamos con Miguel. Muchos de los productos acad\u00e9micos que hicimos est\u00e1n firmados por los dos porque la investigaci\u00f3n es de los dos. Con la novela dec\u00edamos bueno yo hago la novela, pero que la firmamos entre todos, nos inventamos un seud\u00f3nimo o qu\u00e9 hacemos. Barajamos todas estas opciones, pero Miguel me dec\u00eda es que si firmamos con un seud\u00f3nimo todo mundo va a pensar que es la novela de fulanito y a nadie le va a importar, en cambio si vos firmas es es tu nombre, vos ya ten\u00e9s un nombre y ese nombre es el que va a hacer que la gente lea el libro.<\/span>\n\nAl final siempre hay como una condici\u00f3n de fantasmalidad. El yo es lo que m\u00e1s se diluye y se vuelve como un espectro rar\u00edsimo que est\u00e1 ah\u00ed.  En mi caso voy tirando de hilos, de tramas y curiosamente hay una tensi\u00f3n autobiogr\u00e1fica de fondo. Es como qui\u00e9n soy yo, por qu\u00e9 me siento atra\u00eddo por estas cosas. <\/span>\n\n<\/span>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Img full\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img-x1\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"4_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_2,1_2\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" admin_label=\"Fila quote\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img-x2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|25px||25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|20px||20px|false|false\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-quote\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"||||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" hover_enabled=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\" sticky_enabled=\"0\"]\n\n<\/b>\n\n\u201cS\u00ed, uno est\u00e1 tomando fotos, haciendo instalaciones o haciendo alguna praxis espec\u00edfica que implica que pas\u00e9 mucho tiempo solo, pensando. Pero en realidad uno est\u00e1 haciendo estas cosas con y para los dem\u00e1s. Las im\u00e1genes, los textos tienen una capacidad de construir comunidad que no tiene otras formas. El texto se vuelve ese espacio p\u00fablico, ese lugar donde la gente lo discute.\u201d<\/b>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" module_alignment=\"center\" custom_margin=\"0px|auto|2px|auto|false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|phone\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|50px|60px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|60px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-p\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\nMuchas veces, cuando se habla de memoria se habla de algo que se puede comprobar, registrar, ocultar y no siempre es as\u00ed. Lo cierto es que las memorias est\u00e1n siendo construidas todo el tiempo. Pienso en lo que hemos hablado y en lo que dice Azoulay y eso me lleva a pensar que una de las salidas de esas historias en apariencia inevitables tiene que ver con la imaginaci\u00f3n. Escuch\u00e9 una <\/b>entrevista<\/b><\/a> que te hizo Malena Rey y ella dec\u00eda que eres un autor que tiene mucha confianza en la imaginaci\u00f3n. \u00bfQu\u00e9 piensas de esa aseveraci\u00f3n y c\u00f3mo asumes la relaci\u00f3n entre memoria e imaginaci\u00f3n?<\/b>\n\nTengo una relaci\u00f3n ambigua o complicada con la imaginaci\u00f3n porque por un lado no me gusta esta idea como de la fantas\u00eda desbocada porque s\u00ed. Esta idea que viene del surrealismo, de ciertas vanguardias en esa l\u00ednea de la fantas\u00eda total. A m\u00ed siempre me produce mucha desconfianza esa idea de la imaginaci\u00f3n como puro gasto desbocado y deportivo de fantas\u00eda. Porque tambi\u00e9n creo en los m\u00e9todos, en las ciencias y, de hecho, me interesan. Siempre que me mencionan la palabra imaginaci\u00f3n me acuerdo de una frase que le le\u00ed a Reichel Dolmatoff en una etnograf\u00eda que \u00e9l tiene sobre el pueblo Tucano en el Vaup\u00e9s.<\/span>\n\n\u00c9l dice una cosa incre\u00edble refiri\u00e9ndose a la manera en la que los Tucanos piensan su metaf\u00edsica. Ellos tienen toda una serie de palabras donde, por ejemplo, hay una afinidad etimol\u00f3gica entre las palabras que se usan para luz y semen, entonces hay como toda una idea de engendramiento en la luz.<\/span>\n\nY entonces Reichel sigue esa l\u00ednea de pensamiento y cuando concluye dice: \u201cpara los Tucanos la imaginaci\u00f3n es una herramienta de alta precisi\u00f3n\u201d. Nunca se me va a olvidar esa frase, porque si hay una idea de imaginaci\u00f3n que hay que defender es esa. Vos agotaste todas las v\u00edas posibles racionales, pusiste todas tus t\u00e9cnicas, recursos, procedimientos, discursos al servicio de una indagaci\u00f3n y de repente te empezaron a surgir un mont\u00f3n de huecos y no los puedes rellenar. Bueno, esos huecos los rellena la imaginaci\u00f3n y la imaginaci\u00f3n tiene que ser de alt\u00edsima precisi\u00f3n.<\/span>\n\nEse es el tipo de imaginaci\u00f3n en el que yo creo. En estos lugares donde hay tanta impunidad y donde tenemos esta historia en la que es dif\u00edcil reconstruir la trama de c\u00f3mo nos han oprimido, c\u00f3mo nos han destruido, c\u00f3mo nos han perseguido. Muchas veces es dif\u00edcil hacerlo porque justamente lo que hacen nuestros enemigos es borrar los rastros y oscurecer las tramas, muy calculadamente lo hacen para que uno no las pueda reconstruir. Entonces ah\u00ed es donde tiene que entrar la imaginaci\u00f3n.<\/span>\n\nLlegas a un punto en el que dices: ok, no tengo ni el testimonio, ni las evidencias, no tengo elementos de juicio suficientemente fuertes como para establecer una conexi\u00f3n material. Pero tengo unas peque\u00f1as ruinas, unos peque\u00f1os indicios y yo a partir de esos indicios voy a tratar de usar mi imaginaci\u00f3n como esa herramienta de alta precisi\u00f3n para poder reconstruir la trama y que esto no quede impune, que esto lo podamos contar, que esto nos lo podamos decir los unos a los otros y hacer relatos.<\/span>\n\n \n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_2,1_2\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila 50-50\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img-x2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px|0px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|25px||25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|20px||20px|false|false\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|10px|0px|0px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|5px|||false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|0px|||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" custom_css_main_element_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"1_2\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|0px|0px|10px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|||5px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"|||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" module_alignment=\"center\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|phone\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|50px|60px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|60px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-p\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\n \n\n\u00bfPor qu\u00e9 es tan importante hacer estos relatos?<\/b>\n\nCuando uno empieza a interesarse por la teor\u00eda literaria y uno empieza a estudiar, inevitablemente acaba en todos los debates de los a\u00f1os 60 sobre todo de la teor\u00eda francesa. Sobre todo, en los debates que hab\u00eda alrededor de una revista que se llama <\/span>Tel Quel<\/span><\/i>, en la que salieron un mont\u00f3n de escritores pensadores, etc\u00e9tera y en esa revista hab\u00eda como un dogma que es casi compartido de manera un\u00e1nime por toda esa gente y es que la narratividad es como un enemigo a vencer. Para ellos, lo narrativo es ideol\u00f3gico, es la expresi\u00f3n de una ideolog\u00eda y, por tanto, lo que hay que hacer es desmontar las narrativas.<\/span>\n\nEse es uno de los dogmas de esta gente, entonces se forma como un paradigma de antinarratividad con razones pol\u00edticas. Lo que dicen es que para evitar que nos controlen a trav\u00e9s de cuentitos tenemos que destruir los cuentos y generar formas anti narrativas desde cero y por eso la novela francesa de esa \u00e9poca es toda experimental. Esos dogmas m\u00e1s o menos siguen ah\u00ed, la novela siempre tiene que tender a cierto truco formal para que no sea narrativa.<\/span>\n\nA mi me parece que eso es un problem\u00f3n, creo que es regalarle la narratividad o la capacidad de fabricar cuentos e historias al enemigo. Eso no se puede hacer, o sea, la narratividad es nuestra y adem\u00e1s uno lo ve en c\u00f3mo las organizaciones populares funcionan, las organizaciones populares son b\u00e1sicamente mecanismos narrativos. Ellos cuentan c\u00f3mo nos tomamos el terreno para hacer el barrio, c\u00f3mo montamos las primeras casas, qui\u00e9n las construy\u00f3, qui\u00e9n fue la primera persona que fue y nos puso la luz. Hacer esa memoria narrativa del movimiento social o de la movilizaci\u00f3n es clave entonces. Yo lo que pienso es: si la organizaci\u00f3n popular trabaja as\u00ed, pues nosotros c\u00f3mo no vamos a trabajar as\u00ed, hay que trabajar as\u00ed desde la memoria y desde la narraci\u00f3n. <\/span>\n\nCon esto no quiero decir que est\u00e9 contra el experimentalismo como lo pueden constatar en mis propias novelas. Es todo lo contrario. Me parece que esto tiene mucho m\u00e1s retos formales que pensar solo en la disyuntiva entre narratividad y antinarratividad. <\/span>\n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular 10-90\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|0px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|25px|0px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|0px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_css_main_element=\"width:10%!important;\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" custom_css_main_element=\"width:90%!important;\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" custom_css_main_element_last_edited=\"on|tablet\" custom_css_main_element_tablet=\"width:100%!important;\" custom_css_main_element_phone=\"width:100%!important;\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_code admin_label=\"Imagen Esp\" module_class=\"vst-cnt-img\" _builder_version=\"4.9.4\" _module_preset=\"default\"][imagen_nota id=\"\"][\/et_pb_code][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row column_structure=\"1_4,3_4\" use_custom_gutter=\"on\" gutter_width=\"1\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|phone\" admin_label=\"Fila-regular\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_color=\"RGBA(0,0,0,0)\" width=\"100%\" max_width=\"1920px\" module_alignment=\"center\" custom_margin=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_margin_tablet=\"\" custom_margin_phone=\"\" custom_margin_last_edited=\"on|phone\" custom_padding=\"0px|50px|60px|50px|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"0px|50px|60px|25px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px|20px|60px|20px|false|false\" border_radii=\"off||||\" collapsed=\"off\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_column type=\"1_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" background_enable_color=\"off\" custom_padding=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"\" custom_padding_phone=\"\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=\"3_4\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"0px|11.5vw|0px|10%|false|false\" custom_padding_tablet=\"|0px||0px|false|false\" custom_padding_phone=\"0px||0px||false|false\" custom_padding_last_edited=\"on|desktop\" pac_dcm_carousel_specific_module_num=\"0\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"][et_pb_text module_class=\"vst-p\" _builder_version=\"4.15\" _module_preset=\"default\" custom_padding=\"50px||||false|false\" global_colors_info=\"{}\" theme_builder_area=\"post_content\"]\n\nEso es notorio en tus posturas frente al arte, y al arte como una herramienta pol\u00edtica. Pensar el ejercicio de escribir como lo describes como una sucesi\u00f3n de la organizaci\u00f3n social, desmantela la estructura ideol\u00f3gica tuya, es decir la literatura como marcha. <\/b>Peregrino transparente<\/i><\/b> justamente por eso moviliza tantos sentimientos, porque es sumamente pol\u00edtica. Pienso en el momento en que Pandiguando mata a la gente y c\u00f3mo lo hace. Hay una sugerencia de la venganza pero tambi\u00e9n de la pol\u00edtica del amor de la que hablas, hay una tensi\u00f3n.<\/b>\n\nYo no me siento parte de una \u00e9lite, yo me siento parte de una vanguardia y me parece que eso es una diferencia radical porque una vanguardia es otra cosa. La vanguardia por definici\u00f3n est\u00e1 completamente ligada al pueblo, est\u00e1 ligada a unas fuerzas populares de las que yo siempre me he sentido plenamente parte, es decir, ese truco de que porque fulano fue a la universidad entonces ya no es pueblo, eso es de nuevo el diablo de las oligarqu\u00edas haciendo de las suyas. <\/span>\n

<\/h3>\nMe rehuso a la idea de que me separen del pueblo. No lo van a conseguir nunca, ese gusto no se los voy a dar jam\u00e1s. Yo soy pueblo y no hago las cosas desde un yo, las hago desde lo colectivo. Lo que pasa es que la literatura y el arte son raras, porque uno s\u00ed trabaja solo, pero en realidad uno no est\u00e1 solo. <\/span>\n

<\/h3>\nEs importante saberlo. S\u00ed, uno est\u00e1 tomando fotos, haciendo instalaciones o haciendo yo que s\u00e9 qu\u00e9 praxis espec\u00edfica que implica que pas\u00e9 mucho tiempo solo pensando. Pero en realidad uno est\u00e1 haciendo estas cosas con y para los dem\u00e1s. Yo creo que estas cosas al final s\u00ed construyen comunidad. Las im\u00e1genes, los textos tienen una capacidad de construir comunidad que no tiene otras formas. Al final el texto se vuelve ese espacio p\u00fablico y se vuelve como ese lugar donde la gente lo discute. Para m\u00ed ha sido intrigante y al mismo tiempo estimulante y bonito como la gente se ha apropiado del <\/span>Peregrino<\/span><\/i>. Es muy lindo, porque yo siento que cada vez es menos m\u00edo. <\/span>\n

<\/h3>\nEstas cosas van creando una comunidad y una sensibilidad que al final es la parte m\u00e1s importante y pol\u00edticamente m\u00e1s persuasiva. Porque vos pod\u00e9s tener todos los discursos correctos, vos haces el an\u00e1lisis correcto, escribiste un art\u00edculo en el peri\u00f3dico donde vos de manera muy cl\u00ednica analizaste todo bien, pero si vos no est\u00e1s proponiendo una cosa sensible vos no vas a convencer a nadie. Esto es una guerra y en esta guerra se gana con sensibilidad, se gana creando cosas que contagien a la gente, que la gente sienta que eso es sabroso, que es rico. Esa es la parte clave para m\u00ed, la parte pol\u00edtica al final.<\/span>\n

<\/h3>\n \n\n[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section]","_et_gb_content_width":""},"categories":[3,272,11,280,279,285,278],"tags":[12,494,165,43,713,533,712,714],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nFictions for imagining flavorful futures - Vist Projects<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/vistprojects.com\/en\/fictions-for-imagining-flavorful-futures\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Fictions for imagining flavorful futures - Vist Projects\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/vistprojects.com\/en\/fictions-for-imagining-flavorful-futures\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Vist Projects\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2023-10-07T23:11:35+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-10-07T23:11:51+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"mvallejoq\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:description\" content=\"[vist_img_post_intro]\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"mvallejoq\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"37 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/vistprojects.com\/en\/fictions-for-imagining-flavorful-futures\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/vistprojects.com\/en\/fictions-for-imagining-flavorful-futures\/\",\"name\":\"Fictions for imagining flavorful futures - 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